Prudential Financial sees 28% surge in Q3 adjusted operating income, fueled by diverse business growth and strategic initiatives, despite ongoing challenges in active equity management.

OPERATOR - (00:01:28)

Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to Prudential's Quarterly Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen only mode. Later we'll conduct a question and answer session. Instructions will be given at that time. If you should require any assistance during the call, please press STAR zero and an operator will assist you offline. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Bob McLaughlin. Please go ahead.

Bob McLaughlin - Moderator - (00:01:54)

Good morning and thank you for joining our call. Representing Prudential on today's call are Andy Sullivan, CEO and Janelle Afrias, CFO. We will start with comments by Andy and Janelle and then we will address your questions. Today's discussion may include forward looking statements. It is possible that actual results may differ materially from the predictions we make today. In addition, our presentation includes references to non GAAP measures for a reconciliation of such measures to the comparable GAAP measures, and a discussion of the factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward looking statements. Please see the slides titled Forward Looking Statements and Non GAAP Measures in the appendix to today's presentation which can be found on our website@investor.Prudential Financialdential.com and now I'll turn it over to Andy Good morning everyone and welcome to the call. We had a strong third quarter. Our pre tax adjusted operating income was $1.9 billion or $4.26 per share, a record high up 28% from the prior year quarter reflecting earnings growth in every business and our year to date adjusted operating return on Equity was over 15%. These results reflect higher spread income and more favorable underwriting experience across our global retirement and insurance businesses as well as higher fee income in PGIM. Current quarter results benefited from alternative investment income that was above our expectations as well as other favorable onetime items. Higher alternative investment income was driven by stronger private equity and hedge fund returns partially offset by lower real estate returns. Our third quarter performance reflects sustained momentum across our businesses. Let me highlight a few examples. PGIM remains focused on delivering strong investment performance and strengthening core capabilities while continuing to invest in the business to drive future growth. This quarter we achieved positive net inflows across both third party and affiliated channels. In institutional retirement, we closed a jumbo pension risk transfer transaction, reinforcing our market leadership and complementing the robust longevity risk transfer activity so far this year. Our individual retirement, individual life and group insurance businesses are benefiting from our differentiated distribution and the actions we've taken to broaden our product portfolios and diversify our market segments. Individual Retirement delivered over $3 billion in sales for the seventh consecutive quarter and in individual life and group Insurance we delivered double digit year to date. Sales Growth Turning to our international insurance businesses in Japan, where our business has been traditionally focused on protection products, we continue to expand our retirement and savings solutions leaning into the changing nature of this marketplace. And in Brazil, we set a new sales record in the Life Planner channel. In addition, we continue to expand our third party distribution network and deepen our strategic partnerships. While business performance was strong for the quarter overall, let me bring one area of pressure to your attention. Jenison, our active equity manager, continued to experience outflows consistent with broader industry trends. These outflows are dampening our organic growth and earnings momentum in pgim. We are encouraged by the third quarter results and remain committed to delivering stronger and more consistent earnings growth that creates long term value for our shareholders. Moving to Slide 3 I've been clear on my three priorities as CEO. First, we are evolving our strategy to focus on opportunities that will deliver the most profitable growth over time and are allocating our capital accordingly. Specifically, we're looking to focus on areas with large and growing addressable markets in which we have highly differentiated capabilities and can earn attractive returns. Accordingly, in the third quarter we completed the sale of our PJIM Taiwan business to focus resources on higher growth opportunities. Second, we are determined to execute with more consistency and discipline. We are quickly evolving to a unified asset manager model in PGIM and have taken actions to deliver run rate savings that will drive margin expansion in 2026. Client response to our new organizational structure, which includes a centralized distribution capability for institutional investors, has been overwhelmingly positive. In fact, we now expect to double the percentage of clients engaging with two or more of our asset management businesses which will drive additional margin growth over time. The sales momentum in our global retirement businesses underscores how we're meeting evolving customer needs around the world in US retirement strategies. Year to date, sales of over $30 billion demonstrate our leadership in the growing retirement market and contributed our highest earnings in the last five quarters. Additionally, over the past three years in Japan, we've launched seven new products reflecting our commitment to meeting the evolving needs of our customers through a comprehensive suite of protection and retirement solutions. As a result, sales in Japan have increased by about 35% over this period, with yen denominated sales increasing by over 50%. And third, we are enhancing our culture with a focus on speed and accountability. As an example, we accelerated our succession plan in Japan, appointing Brad Hearn as CEO reporting directly to me. This move ensures we have the right leadership in place to drive our growth strategy in Japan. Brad brings a strong track record of driving results and scaling distribution networks from his time leading our domestic Prudential Advisors business. His experience is directly relevant given the shifting nature of Japan's market towards retirement. He will continue working closely with Caroline, Jacques and the entire leadership team to share best practices and collaborate across businesses, ultimately helping us better serve customers and capture opportunities in this rapidly evolving market. We extend our thanks to Hamada san for his 33 years of service in Japan. Before I turn it over to Janella, I want to emphasize that across the enterprise, we're taking clear and decisive action to address these priorities. I look forward to sharing more in the quarters ahead as we continue to build on our momentum. With that, I'll hand it over to Janella.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:08:43)

Thank you Andy. I will provide an overview of the performance for our PJIM US and international businesses. I will begin on slide 4 with the quarterly operating results from our businesses. Compared to the year ago quarter, PGM delivered higher asset management fees driven by market appreciation, positive net flows and strong investment performance. Higher other related revenues from strong Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac originations and gains on seed and Co Investments. Third quarter results also included $40 million in reorganization charges from integrating PGIN's multi manager model, partially offset by a $25 million gain from the sale of our Taiwan business. Results of our US Businesses reflected higher net investment spread income and retirement strategies including the benefit from stronger alternative investment income coupled with more favorable underwriting results from individual life and group insurance. This was partially offset by lower fee income resulting from the runoff of our legacy variable annuity block and higher expenses to support business growth. In our international businesses. We also experienced higher net investment spread results including the benefit from stronger alternative investment income and more favorable underwriting partially offset by higher expenses to support business growth. Turning to Slide 5, PJM has diversified capabilities in both public and private asset classes across fixed income equities and alternatives. PGMs long term investment performance remains strong with over 70% of assets under management outperforming their benchmarks over the five and ten year period. In addition, the three year track record, which is an important metric for the retail channel, has 80% of assets outperforming benchmark. PGIM's assets under management of $1.5 trillion increased 5% from the prior year quarter driven by market appreciation, positive net flows and strong investment performance. Total net inflows in the quarter of $2.4 billion included affiliated net inflows of $1.8 billion and third party net inflows of $600 million. Third party institutional and retail inflows were both $300 million, mainly driven by fixed income inflows, partially offset by Jenison equity outflows as previously noted. Before I move on from pjum, I want to expand on Andy's commentary regarding the rapid progress we have made reorganizing, including early financial impacts. The actions taken thus far will drive operating efficiencies and create reinvestment capacity, enabling us to continue expanding capabilities, enhancing client experience and strengthening our competitive position to support future growth. We expect to realize approximately $100 million in annual run rate savings by the end of 2026 and plan to reinvest about a third of these savings to bolster sales and distribution compared to 2025. We now anticipate over 200 basis points of margin expansion in 2026 from these actions and are well positioned to reach our 25 to 30% margin target. Turning to slide 6 our US businesses produce diversified sources of earnings from fees, net investment, spread and underwriting income and benefit from our complementary mix of longevity and mortality businesses. Retirement strategies continue to have strong momentum, generating $10 billion of sales in the third quarter across its institutional and individual lines of business. Institutional retirement sales of over $6 billion included a $2.3 billion Jambo pension risk transfer and was complemented by $1.5 billion of longevity risk transfer transactions. Individual retirement posted over $3 billion in sales driven by continued momentum in fixed annuities as well as solid sales of registered index linked annuities, reflecting the actions we have taken to broaden our product portfolio. Group insurance sales totaled almost $80 million in the third quarter with year to date sales of $555 million up 14% from a year ago driven by growth in both group life and disability. We are executing our strategy of both product and market segment diversification while leveraging technology to increase operating efficiency and enhance customer experience. The benefits ratio of approximately 83% remains at the low end of our target range, reflecting favorable life underwriting results and less favorable disability experience driven by an uptick in severity and lower claim resolutions which can vary quarter to quarter in individual Life. Sales of $253 million in the third quarter were up 20% from the prior year quarter. This growth was driven by higher accumulation focused variable life including record sales in our differentiated Flexguard Life product suite. Turning to slide 7 our international businesses include our Japanese life insurance companies where we have a differentiated Multi channel distribution model as well as other businesses aimed at expanding our presence in targeted high growth emerging markets. Sales in our international businesses were down 6% compared to the prior year quarter. This was primarily due to strong US Dollar denominated single pay sales in Japan that benefited from the yen appreciating sharply in the prior year quarter. Year to date, international sales remain solid and are up 4% versus prior year driven by growth in both Japan and Brazil. As we previously stated, while surrender activity in Japan continued to show signs of stabilization, it remains a near term headwind that will partially offset new business growth. We also anticipate approximately $30 million of higher expenses in the fourth quarter primarily due to timing consistent with what we've observed in prior years. Turning to slide 8 our capital position and strong regulatory capital ratios continue to support our AA financial strength and our ability to grow our market leading businesses. Our cash and liquid assets were $3.9 billion which is above our minimum liquidity target of $3 billion and we have substantial off balance sheet resources. Also of note, our board approved an economic solvency ratio operating target of 150% as part of our annual capital planning process. Credential of Japan and Gibraltar Life remain well above this level. As we look ahead, we are well positioned across our businesses to be a global leader in expanding access to investing insurance and retirement security. And with that we're happy to take your questions.

OPERATOR - (00:16:11)

Thank you. We'll now be conducting a question and answer session. If you'd like to be placed in the question queue, please press star1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 if you'd like to move your question from the queue. We ask you please limit yourselves to one question, one follow up, then return to the queue. Our first question today is coming from Wilma Burtis from Raymond James. Your line is now live.

Wilma Burtis - Equity Analyst - (00:16:40)

Hey, good morning. Just first question on the prts. We saw you had a large jumbo. Pension risk transfer this quarter which has. Been a slow market this year. Maybe just give a little bit of commentary on that. And then also the longevity market in the uk, we've seen a couple entrants there, so just if you could give us an update on what you're seeing. Thanks.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:16:59)

Sure. Good morning Wilma. So we still believe that the pension risk transfer market will be softer in 25 versus 24, but we've seen an uptick in the pipeline for the second half of the year is proving to be more robust than what we saw earlier, you know, remember that especially in the PRT market, it's an episodic market, particularly in the jumbo space. That said, this is going to be a big market for years to come with, you know, 3 trillion in untransacted liabilities, funding levels sitting at high 105%. We're very well positioned to win and to remain a leader given the strength of our brand, our underwriting, our asset management and service. So we're happy to see that the market's strengthening here in the back half of the year. You know, when it comes to the LRT market, this is a very good opportunity as well. Globally, pension plans are even more well funded than they are here in the US we focus on two core markets, the UK and Netherlands. In the UK we're seeing about 50 to 55 billion of pension risk transfers per year, with about 80% of that volume seeking longevity reinsurance. In the Netherlands, there's about $330 billion in defined benefit pension money. That's given the reform, looking to transition to defined contribution. Much of that will seek pension risk transfer and reinsurance. Similar story to PRT. We're a leader in the space. We did 2 deals this quarter for a billion and a half. That puts our year to date sales over 11 billion. So this is also just a very good market with healthy returns and plenty of room to grow. So we like the dynamics that we're seeing in both of the spaces.

Wilma Burtis - Equity Analyst - (00:18:41)

Sounds great. And then PGEM flows have been improving. Could you just talk a little bit more about the drivers and do you think this is an inflection point or what are you kind of seeing? Do you think this is an improvement that's going to continue? Thanks.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:18:54)

Yeah, certainly so. And we've discussed this before, as it comes to flows, we assess success by looking at total flows, both affiliated and third party, and we look at it over longer timeframes. So if you look at it from that lens, over the last 12 months we did over 20 billion in total inflows. This quarter we did 2.4 billion in total inflows. And in the third party in particular, we were positive and split evenly between retail and institutional. What we saw this quarter was very strong inflows across public, fixed income, privates and alternatives. That was offset by Jenison equity outflows. This is systemic in the industry and we're not immune given what's happened with the active to passive pressure. That said, active equity plays a very important role in our clients portfolio and is important in the mix as we look forward as far as an outlook perspective, given the consistent strength we've been showing in institutional, we're optimistic. We're more cautious on the retail side as that is more volatile and clients tend to react quicker to changes in the environment. And we are working to lessen and overcome those equity outflows.

Wilma Burtis - Equity Analyst - (00:20:12)

Thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:20:14)

Thank you. Next question today is coming from Sunit Kamath. From Jeffrey, your line is now live.

Sunit Kamath - Equity Analyst - (00:20:19)

Great, thanks. Good morning. I guess Janelle, in the past you've Talked about this 3 to 4 point drag on EPS growth from the legacy VA and the surrenders. Can you maybe just give some color on how that you expect that to play out over the next few years? And then somewhat relatedly, you've been putting on all this new business growth, but is there a lag between when you write this business and when it actually shows up in the EPS results?

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:20:45)

Yeah. Hi Sunit. Yeah, so let me start recall when we provided the intermediate target of 5 to 8%, I did speak about these near term headwinds being incorporated in the target and therefore the growth not being linear. As these headwinds dissipate, we will see the earnings power of the new annuity sales and the Japan business continue to emerge. Specific to the two items. With regards to the VA runoff, we expect to continue to see the 3 to 4 billion quarterly runoff which as I said has about a 10 to 15 million AOI impact per quarter compounding and hence the 100 to 150 million that we talked about before. As that block continues to run off and the account VAlues of the new products grow, we will have a crossover point and the earnings headwind will be reduced. With regards to the higher than expected surrenders in Japan, we do continue to see stabilization. Given the stabilization, as we look forward beyond 2025, we would expect a more moderate impact of surrenders. With regards to the second point of your question, I would say we are seeing the benefit in EPS when we look at the core earnings growth in both individual and institutional retirement this quarter and as I said over time, as the headwinds dissipate, that earnings growth will continue to grow.

Sunit Kamath - Equity Analyst - (00:22:06)

Got it. And then just shifting gears, I wanted to ask about the private credit asset class. Just given some of the headlines that we've seen over the past couple weeks. Given your strength in fixed income asset management in general, I figured you'd have a good read on what you're seeing in the market and maybe more specifically what you're seeing at pru. Thanks.

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:22:24)

Yeah, so let me talk about the general account for sure. Obviously we're monitoring this very closely as we do with all markets. With regards to private credit and our portfolio, we've been in the private credit space for decades. Our private credit portfolio is largely private placements with strong covenants and other downside protections. And this portfolio has consistently performed better than equally rated publics during economic downturns. And we've seen this consistently. Approximately 90% of our corporate private credit securities are investment grade. Roughly half of the below investment grade private placements are in the double B category and are very well underwritten. And lastly, our growth in private credit has been modest. So we've been doing this a long time and we are very comfortable with the portfolio.

Sunit Kamath - Equity Analyst - (00:23:15)

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:23:19)

Next question is coming from Tom Gallagher from Evercore isi. Your line is now live.

Tom Gallagher - Equity Analyst - (00:23:25)

Good morning. Couple of questions about Japan, the 150% ESR target. Can you, can you guys kind of get into why you think that's the appropriate level? I think there's some confusion around what pure targets are, how they're higher than PRUs, and generally the domestic insurers in Japan are running at around 200% plus. And why 150 is like a fine number for you. And is that something you've gotten blessed by the rating agencies and regulators? Thanks.

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:24:04)

Yeah. Tom, let me explain what the 150% ESR target is and what it isn't because I agree with you. There may be some confusion in terms of what it is. It is the level that we would hold after a market stress occurs. So this is the level we would not want to go below. And this type of stress includes shock to markets, rates and credit. This is how we set our targets across all our legal entities. And as you've heard me say before, we have capital resources to manage these stresses as well as to manage more severe stresses, including our contingent capital sources. So that's what it is. In terms of what it isn't. It is not what we would aspire to hold in normal times. So in normal times we would hold higher levels, as you saw at the March 31 date, where our ESR level was between 180 and 200%. So we plan to hold a level of capital above our target to provide a cushion that can withstand a market stress and that is very consistent with how we manage our other businesses. And further, and to some of your questions, these ratios are a result of considerable thought, considerable modeling outcomes, and does include dialogue with key constituents, including the rating agencies. As far as regulators, they're more focused on the threshold level. For them which is 100% and relative to peers. Different companies do have different business mix and we believe that is a big driver of the difference in the levels. So I would just close by saying that our operations in Japan remain well capitalized. Our June results were well above our 150% target just like our March 31 results were as we discussed last quarter. And our ESR is not a binding constraint when it comes to cash flows from Japan.

Tom Gallagher - Equity Analyst - (00:25:59)

That's all helpful, I appreciate it. Just my follow up is. So you had the recent abrupt departure of your CEO in Japan. I guess my perception is it's somewhat related to some regulatory issues that have occurred in the market that have impacted Prudential of Japan. Can you elaborate what's happening there? And I just want to make sure you don't think there's going to be any impacts to sales revenues when we think about things going forward in that business. Thanks. Yeah.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:26:34)

Good morning. Good morning, Tom. So succession planning is something that we take really seriously here at PRU and do very well. So this change from Hamadasan to Brad was planned. So when you use the words abrupt departure, this was a planned succession change. We did accelerate it and Hamadasan stepped down. Given some operational and compliance considerations as you mentioned, Hamadasan felt, and I felt as well, it was a good time to give Brad Hearn what I would call the driver's seat. I want to, as I did in my opening remarks to thank Hamada san for all he's done for the company. But Japan's in great hands. Brad Hearn is a 30 plus year veteran of the industry. Brad oversaw our Prudential Advisor capability here in the us. He was the architect and key driver of of the strategic relationship with lpl. He saw the US market go from independent insurance agent over time to financial planners which is a very similar trend to which we're beginning to see in Japan. So he is the right leader to lead forward capitalizing on this changing nature of the market. As far as what might this might mean from a go forward perspective, from a revenue perspective, looking forward, I'd just say keep in mind two things. One, the market is changing. It is rotating towards retirement and savings and then recognize in our results you're still seeing the surrender headwinds. We're pleased with sales year to date in Japan. They're up 4% and we've seen our new product introductions are really taking hold. About 20% of our sales are from products that we've introduced in the last 24 months and a majority of the sales are from retirement and savings. So this was a plan change that we accelerated. If you look at Brad as the leader, the breadth of our product portfolio, the depth of our multichannel distribution, we know that all of that will help us overcome these headwinds over time and will help our growth. All right, thanks, Andy.

OPERATOR - (00:28:42)

Thank you. Next question today is coming from Jimmy Bueller from J.P. morgan. Your line is now live.

Jimmy Bueller - Equity Analyst - (00:28:47)

Hey, good morning. I had a couple of questions. First, if you could just talk about what you're seeing in terms of claims trends and price competition in the disability market. And then I had one on another product line. Yeah, so thanks, Jimmy. And maybe I'll take this overall from both perspectives. So first, we are pleased with the quarter that we had in group and we're very pleased with our results year to date. As you saw in the quarter, we saw very strong life performance. So, you know, very, very happy about that. We did see headwinds on the disability side. There's really three things that I would talk about when it comes to the higher disability ratio that we saw in the quarter. First, we saw an increase in the average size of new claims for both short term and long term. As you know, that will naturally vary quarter to quarter. Second, we saw lower LTD resolutions. Remember, last quarter for us was an exceptionally strong quarter and it was exceptionally strong as a resolution quarter as well. So it's quite natural for that to step down after such a strong quarter. And then third, we had unfavorable experience in our New York paid family leave book. That's very consistent with the industry. And I would note that New York recently raised pricing in paid family leave, which is going to help offset that headwind. Pricing remains rational. You know, we obviously closely monitor new business pricing and we're not seeing anything different than we would expect to see. We also obviously spent a lot of time monitoring our book experience at the block and case level and we've been quite successful at placing renewal increases where they've been warranted. So, you know, our group business is very well led. We have a very experienced team that stays on top of changes in the outside environment and we have a good deal of confidence in the path forward. Okay. And then just on competition in the RILA market, your sales, I think sequentially were up, but they have slowed from what they were last year and you've been citing competition as one of the reasons. So. And I just wanted to ask you for more details on what type of. Are you seeing competitors or are you just seeing a more crowded market or Is it that companies are offering terms and conditions which you feel you don't want to match? Yeah. Jimmy, thanks for the question. This is consistent with what we've discussed about, discussed last quarter. It has become more competitive and you can use the word more crowded. I think that's a great way to frame it. You know, we went from five competitors a few years back to 25 today. That includes some broader annuity players that have entered more recently. You know, when you only had 5, the share was very concentrated. So it's quite natural for new players to work very hard to fragment that concentration. We expect it and have seen that there will be some aggressive pricing in the marketplace. You know, what you should expect from us is disciplined growth. Right. Capitalizing on the strength of our brand, the strength of the product portfolio and our wide distribution. We're going to always make sure we're growing, but we're also achieving the right level of profitability. And that's what you're seeing show up in the sales. If you look at that business in general, we've done greater than a billion dollars of sales per month every single month of 2025. That is very consistent success and that's what we would expect going forward. Okay, thank you.

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:32:25)

Thank you. Next question is coming from John Barnage from Piper Sandler. Your line is now live. Good morning. Thanks for the opportunity. My question is about the Partners Group partnership. How meaningful do you envision it and are there other partnerships that could be added beyond Partners Group? As we've seen life insurers not just stop at one for product creation.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:32:45)

Thank you. Yeah, good morning, John. We're very excited about the partnership with the Partners group. PGIM and the Partners group are highly complementary and obviously bring to the table best in class capabilities from both sides. Really. This partnership is about working together to bring forth multi asset solutions to wealth, retirement and insurance clients, particularly in the retail space. You know, if you think about it, partners brings capabilities that we don't have like primary private equity and we bring credit and real estate capabilities that are very additive to their strengths. So you should expect that one of the ways we'll look to grow our asset management capability and success is using partnerships. It's additive to help us grow, but it's not new. You saw us do this as we launched Prismic as well.

Jimmy Bueller - Equity Analyst - (00:33:40)

Okay, thanks for that. And then with the board approving the esr, what is the opportunity for Prismic as you see it in the coming year? Thank you.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:33:53)

Hi, John. With regards to Prismic, you know, I would say Prismic continues to be an important tool in our toolkit. Reinsurance is key to our business. It allows us to manage products in the most capital efficient manner by matching capital and reserving regimes with economics. And to accomplish this we use reinsurance with wholly owned entities, Prismic and third parties. And you've seen us do that in order to manage ESR volatility as we've talked about in the past. And we continue to work on an active pipeline with PRISMC that includes ongoing balance sheet optimization, financing new business growth as well as working on third party capital. Third party blocks. Sorry. So the one thing I would say that is new about Prismic is that we did recently launch our first forward flow transaction with Prismic covering US retail fixed annuities. It's in small quantities because we just began that, but it is our first forward flow transaction.

OPERATOR - (00:34:58)

Thank you. Next question is coming from Jack Mattson from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is now live. Hi, good morning. My first question is on individual retirement. Your core earnings growth there took a nice step up this quarter. It looks like at least part of that was on better spread earnings. Just wondering if you could discuss further the earnings growth outlook for that business. Are the ways you can keep offsetting the headwinds from VA runoff and any impacts from Fed rate cuts that we should be thinking about in the coming quarters.

Jack Mattson - Equity Analyst - (00:35:29)

Yeah, Jack, so a couple things. Yeah. To your point, we did have nice core earnings growth there. So the there were two things. We did have higher spread income as well as higher fee income in the business. And that is a result of both business growth and favorable markets. With the continued strong sales that we have seen, we did have an increase in spread earnings. There was also some reinvestment benefit as reinvestment yields continue to be above portfolio yield. So that's the first driver. And in addition to that, the benefit from market appreciation did more than offset the runoff of our legacy variable annuities increasing fee income. So that is definitely a driver that we're seeing with regards to offsetting the runoff. Obviously the earnings here are going to be driven by both markets and spread. In terms of rate cuts and the impact on spreads, there is no material impact of changes on short term rates for us. As I mentioned, our reinvestment yields continue to be higher than our portfolio yields. And so from a long term perspective we do have our sensitivities that we shared on interest rates. And so I would remind you if we had a one time 50 basis point decline in long term interest rates with no recovery after 12 months, we estimate an annual AOI impact of approximately $0.20 per share.

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:36:49)

Hey, Jack, I would just add that this is a market with a lot of tailwinds. You know, it's a market that's now consistently over $110 billion per quarter. If you think about the aging society, that aging society's need for protected income, the fact that there's $7 trillion in money markets on the side and $40 trillion in unprotected retirement assets sitting in retirement accounts, you know, there's just a lot of tailwind, and we're well positioned to capture share in the market given the strength of our capability. So we like what we see and we expect to see growth here. Got it. Thank you.

Jack Mattson - Equity Analyst - (00:37:23)

And the follow up is on expenses. I think we're lower this quarter across the company, I think, both in corporate and other. And the operating segments, I guess. Could you just talk about any kind of expense efficiencies that we're driving across the organization? And looking forward, should we think about whether it's a certain expense ratio or level of savings next year and whether that may be in corporate or the operating segments?

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:37:48)

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I would start by saying that for us, you know, expense discipline is a lifestyle, not necessarily a diet. So we don't think about specific initiatives. We are constantly looking for continuous improvement, and that provides resources to continue to invest in the business as well as potentially falling to the bottom line. We do have an intermediate target for operating expense expenses of 10.5 to 8.5%. And when we did set the target at the end of last year, we were already at the top end of the range. And we do expect to continue to make progress with regards to that target.

Jack Mattson - Equity Analyst - (00:38:27)

Thank you. Thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:38:30)

Next question is coming from Alex Cott from Barclays. Your line is now live. Hi. I wanted to come back to PJIM and just some of the comments you made about the margin improvement over time. I'd be interested in, you know, the restructuring, reorganization charge that you had this year and you know, how much of that directly translates into more immediate savings on expenses. And will you have any more of.

Alex Cott - Equity Analyst - (00:38:56)

Those kind of reorganization charges as we. Think about going into year end and early next year?

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:39:02)

Yeah, thanks, Alex. Maybe let me take that in two different steps. Let me talk a little bit about the integration and then talk about the margin, you know, just to keep front and center. The integration. The reason we did that was really driven by customer behavior and the way that we see customers buying, they absolutely want to work with fewer asset managers that have more breadth that's why we decided to go to market as one PGIMm. I'm very proud of Jacques and the leadership team at the rapid progress they made that they already fully changed and leaned into this new model and the change is being well received in the marketplace by our clients. We're already seeing early signs of cross sell momentum and as Janella talked about in the opening, this will lead to real bottom line savings and strong efficiencies. That absolutely is going to be helpful from a margin perspective. You know our margins in the quarter were 23.7. That was impacted by really two different, I'll call them one timers, the $40 million of severance but also the Taiwan sale. Without those, the margin in the quarter would have been $25,900. So in our 25 to 30 range, the path to getting towards the high end of that range at 30% is very clear. We are starting to see the beginning of the improvement in the fixed income and real estate market. That certainly will be helpful. We are seeing traction in our major growth initiatives with real progress across ETFs, asset backed finance and direct lending. And to your point, we will maintain a laser focus on expenses and that means both looking for lower priority areas that we can shift investment out of as well as just across the entire company. We have a fantastic opportunity with AI and new technology to become more productive. So we are confident in our ability to achieve the high end of 25 to 30. And the changes that we're starting to make more rapidly are giving us good momentum.

Alex Cott - Equity Analyst - (00:41:05)

That's really helpful. Next one I had is on capital management. Just in light of seeing some better growth coming through, could you update us on just capital management priorities overall and mix between sort of growth capital versus redeployment and thoughts on M and A outlook?

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:41:27)

Sure, Alex. So I would start by saying that our capital deployment priorities have not changed. We remain focused on achieving our growth objectives and take a very disciplined approach towards capital deployment to support this. Our top priority has and continues to be to invest in our businesses at attractive returns while continuing to pay a healthy dividend along with share buybacks. And we are comfortable with our current level of capital deployed to shareholders which was over 700 million in the quarter. And we feel that we maintain a balanced mix and as you know our guidance and our intermediate Target is a 65% free cash flow ratio after investing.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:42:07)

In the business and I would just jump in on the MA side we've talked about. We're evolving our strategy to recognize the changing world around us and leaning into the best areas for growth and return as we do that. Obviously, as I've always said, organic growth is always job one. And we think we have some very good organic growth opportunities. But we do view MA as an important tool to be utilized over time. You've heard me on many calls now. I'm a deep believer in being very proactive in the marketplace. I've used the words in the know and in the flow. That means across our very best growth opportunities. So things like asset management, being very active and always being aware. As always, though, we're going to be very intentional, methodical and disciplined in what we do in the MA space. Great.

Alex Cott - Equity Analyst - (00:42:56)

Thank you. Thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:42:59)

Next question today is coming from Ryan Krueger from kbw. Your line is now live.

Ryan Krueger - Equity Analyst - (00:43:04)

Hey, thanks. Good morning. In regards to the headwind from variable annuity runoff, I guess one alternative that could limit that would be pursuing more variable annuity risk transfer. I know you've already, of course, done a couple of transactions already, but was hoping to get an update on if that's something that you'd be at least consider pursuing again. Good morning, Ryan. I'm going to raise this up and not just focus it on variable annuities because there's other areas that this would apply to recognize. We've made very good progress on our product pivots and on the reinsurance transactions. We're pleased that we have those behind us and we have reduced the exposure to traditional variable annuities and guaranteed universal life substantially, but greater than 60%. As I said last quarter, we don't view this as a start or a stop. We're always seeking to optimize our balance sheet, our capital, our cash flows. And as we sit here, there is a healthy market available for transactions. There's plenty of capital available. There are plenty of counterparties that are seeing value in these legacy books of business. So we are and we will continue to assess those opportunities. Obviously, we will keep you informed when we do something.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:44:21)

Great.

Ryan Krueger - Equity Analyst - (00:44:22)

Thank you. And then in January, you had announced that you were pursuing a strategic partnership with Daiichi. Is there anything you can provide in terms of an update on that and what that could potentially include? Yeah, absolutely. The partnership is off to a very good start. And I would just say recall from what we announced. There are two major aspects to phase One. First, we will distribute Daiichi's Neo First Cancer product through our life planner system. That demonstrates the strength and the value of that life planner system. And others recognize that strength. The second part of that is we will manage Material assets over time for Daiichi and in particular including private credit. The assets we have begun to manage assets for Daiichi there. It's steadily growing and will soon reach a billion dollars in assets under management. You know, this is a very important partnership for us and the Daiichi CEO Kakuda san and I meet with regularity and we do have a menu of looking at things of how we might expand this relationship. But we're also both very clear that job one is doing these current things very, very well to earn the right to do the next set of things. Great, thank you.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:45:44)

Thank you. Our next question today is coming from KB Montezeri from Deutsche Bankerbein is now live. Thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:45:51)

First question is on tech and AI. Now, you've been investing in technology and big data analysis for a long time now. Do you think this new generation of AI tools are adding more urgency to invest even more in tech right now.

KB Montezeri - (00:46:05)

Than let's say three years ago? Or do you view this being just.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:46:09)

Business as usual in terms of technology investments? KV we do believe that AI is going to have a profound impact on Prudential over time. And to your point, we have been investing in this for quite some time and we're obviously going to keep doing that. Investments are ramping up and they're ramping up because we see the value of that enhanced level of investment. I think as many do. They're also ramping up though, because the quality of the tools available to use are much better than they have than they were even a year ago. Where we're focused is two core areas. First is improving our customer and advisor experience and using AI to personalize the process and to have faster decision making. And then second, there's just a very strong opportunity to improve the efficiency of the organization, both accelerating employee productivity at the individual level as well as simplifying processes across the company. So this is an area where investments are ramping up and it will enable and inflect our performance over time. Thank you. My follow up question, and maybe there's a bit of a competitive sensitivity around it, so feel free to not answer.

KB Montezeri - (00:47:23)

It, but how much do you spend.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:47:26)

On any given year on these investment in AI and growth initiatives from a technology standpoint? Well, KV you nailed it. We're not going to provide that figure, but maybe I'll just kind of frame it that, you know, we believe technology is intertwined and is core. There's no difference between business and technology today. So the level of investment is significant and we feel it's appropriate and provides great Return to the shareholder. Thanks. Thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:48:01)

Next question is coming from Elise Greenspan from Wells Fargo. Your line is now live.

Elise Greenspan - Equity Analyst - (00:48:07)

Hi. Thanks. Good morning. My first question, I know you guys provided a little bit of forward guidance for next year, right? Just within PGIM and margin improvement. And then just based on how you see other things sitting today, do you guys expect to get back or to get within that 5 to 8% EPS target that you guys laid out next year?

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:48:34)

Hi Elise. Again, if you recall, when we talked about the targets, we said it wouldn't be linear. We talked about the near term headwinds and over time as those dissipate, we would have higher growth. The actions we've taken in PGMI obviously will produce operating efficiencies, increase, create reinvestment capacity and drive growth. We are not at this point updating the targets and it is too early to provide an update. So I would just say we still are targeting the three year growth to be between 5% to 8%.

Elise Greenspan - Equity Analyst - (00:49:12)

Thanks. And then my second question I guess goes back to the esr, right? I know you guys are now laying out this 150 target, right? And last quarter you guys had given us the range that 180 to 200 where you were at the end of the fiscal year. And I believe you said that you're well above the 150. So can you give us a sense like are you still within the 180 to 200? And I know the disclosure will start to come next year, but would you I guess disclose if you fall outside of that 180 to 200 range or if you could just give us a sense of just what the disclosure is going to be from now into next year.

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:49:51)

Yes. Between now into next year you could think about our disclosure being very consistent with how we talk about RBC for Pica. RBC for Pica is published on an annual basis and in the interim quarters we talk about our level relative to that target. It will be the same for the rest of the year until we are publishing in Japan the quarterly RBC. And so what we said March 31 is that at the fiscal year end we were at 180 to 200%. That is well in excess of the 150% target. What we said this quarter is as of June 30th we are well in excess of that target.

Elise Greenspan - Equity Analyst - (00:50:33)

Okay, thank you.

OPERATOR - (00:50:39)

Thank you. Next question is coming from Tracy Bengigi from Wolf Researcher line is now live.

Tracy Bengigi - Equity Analyst - (00:50:45)

Thank you. As a follow up on Private Credit, I get that the traditional place life insurers like to be is private placements. And you have a long track record in the space and many of the private placements are rated. But the market is evolving and new private credit asset classes have emerged in recent years. So my question is, on an allocation perspective, what is your appetite for some of these newer type of private credit assets like residential mortgage loans, asset backed lending, middle market loans and infrastructure?

Janelle Afrias - Chief Financial Officer - (00:51:19)

Yeah, Tracy, you know what I would say is we have a strong portfolio constructed to be resilient and perform well. We always evaluate new asset classes. So absolutely there are new asset classes in private credit and we're looking to evaluate the asset classes that offer attractive relative returns and diversification, diversification opportunity. But this is always done in the context of our robust risk and capital frameworks, and we will continue to do that.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:51:47)

Tracy, I would just add in, obviously that's from a general account perspective. But these are important businesses in pjim and we've been expanding our capabilities from an asset class perspective in the credit space. And you'll recall we just brought together public and private credit together into a $1.1 trillion manager because that's how customers are buying. But we have leaned in and really strengthened. I'll give two examples. Direct lending. You'll recall a couple years back we bought Deerpath Capital. And between our organic growth in direct lending and Deerpath, we're now over 14 billion in assets under management. We're also leaned into asset backed finance, which is part of our $145 billion securitized products business. We're one of the leading players out there in public and private abf. These are capabilities that grew out of the general account. But it's important both to have the right capabilities for rga, but also to get real commercial success out of them as well.

Tracy Bengigi - Equity Analyst - (00:52:50)

Thank you. My next question is on the VUL growth. It was nearly 20% this quarter. It is a more market sensitive product and you're the market leader in the space. I was looking at Wink data. Looks like you're number one and you have nearly 30% market share. So it seems like you like the product more than others. And I'm wondering what is it about the product that you like and what's the earnings profile of VUL that maybe others are missing?

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:53:17)

So thanks, Tracy. Maybe let me start by saying VUL is less market sensitive than the product set that we moved away from. You'll recall that we pivoted away from guaranteed universal life to variable universal life, in particular, variable universal life accumulation products. You know, as far as why we're seeing such great success in the marketplace, I'd just say a couple things. First is the strength of our distribution. We have one of the strongest distribution capabilities in the marketplace. Between our Prudential Advisor capability and our third party relationships. We also have a relatively new product in the marketplace, Flexguard Life. And that product is a VUL product and had a record quarter quarter. To be clear, though others are entering the space, they do see the attractiveness and it is becoming more competitive. We feel we have everything that we need to remain a leader. But we would expect to see more pressure as more of our competitors are getting into this part of the market.

Tracy Bengigi - Equity Analyst - (00:54:24)

Thank you. Thank you.

Wes Carmichael - Equity Analyst - (00:54:28)

Next question today is coming from Wes Carmichael from Autonomous Research for line is now live. Hey, good morning. I had a broad question on longevity. If I think back a number of years, I remember Prudential had a slide in the deck that showed call it the balance between mortality and longevity risk. Seems to me with some of the divestitures on the life side and growth in PRT retail annuities, longevity. I'm just trying to wonder how you're thinking about the balance of longevity. And I guess I ask in the context of Swiss Re is calling for a significant improvement, mortality and morbidity from GLP1 drugs. So I wonder if that's a risk, if you're shifting more toward longevity products.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:55:08)

Yeah, Wes, So a couple of thoughts there. You know, I would say number one, LDTI had significant changes to how that risk emerges in our balance sheet and our earnings. So that's one of the reasons we don't provide that anymore. We do obviously look at longevity and mortality. We track all drivers of mortality improvement, not just GLT1. So it's something we look at very carefully. We feel we're well balanced and we have significant capacity actually to take on more longevity. So we're very comfortable with where we are today.

Wes Carmichael - Equity Analyst - (00:55:46)

All right, that's helpful. The question on individual life, maybe it's a little bit specific, but last year you guys announced the transaction with Wilton. But in that press release you also announced some restructuring of the life captives. And I think that improved run rate, earnings, power. Are there any additional opportunities for captive restructuring? And we've heard that financing charges for some of those older captives have kind of increased substantially. So just wondering if that's still an opportunity.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:56:09)

Yeah, I mean, you know, so obviously last year we had, you know, what I would call a big project where we restructured those. It was very helpful and it improved our profile. What I would say is we're constantly looking at how we optimize our balance sheet and ultimately how we match the economics of our products to the reserving and capital standards. And we will continue to do that whether it's with captives or other areas of our balance sheet. But we're not actively looking to do anything else at this point.

OPERATOR - (00:56:41)

Thank you. Thank you. Our final question today is coming from James Cony from Morgan Stanley. Your line is now live.

James Cain - Equity Analyst - (00:56:52)

Hey, good morning, this is James Cain on for Bob on Group Insurance. How should we think about the total benefits ratio going forward given that it's been trending at the low end below the target range for the last couple quarters? Thank you. So James, it's Andy. So first I just will say we look at that annually. So we will at the end of this year be looking at our benefit ratio range because we obviously recognize what you're saying. You know, I made comments earlier in the call. We're very pleased with the performance of the business. Really benefit ratio comes from discipline in pricing, really strong underwriting and then on the disability side having top notch claims management. We feel we have all three of those and the business has really been operating well on both the life and the disability side. You know, we have a very experienced team there. They're obviously watching the environment. If unemployment were to tick up, we would expect not just for us, but for others, the benefit ratio to increase. But you know, at this point in time, we like where the business is running. We'll re evaluate at the end of the year what the right range should be.

Andy Sullivan - Chief Executive Officer - (00:58:06)

Thank you. We've reached the end of our question and answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over for any further closing comments.

OPERATOR - (00:58:13)

So thank you again for joining us this morning. Before we close out the call, as I often like to do, I want to take a moment to recognize the Prudential team. Our employees are doing the hard essential work of serving our customers as we sharpen our strategy to deliver the long term growth that we expect. I look forward to updating you on our progress in February. Thanks and have a great day. Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.